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[22.05.2014 00:03:16] Шкариненко С.В.
Да и анекдот -то не мой.Сергей Соломаха,мой однокурсник, прислал с поздравлением ко Дню переводчика.По -моему,в наши вияковские годы его сочинил кто-то....
[21.05.2014 21:10:49] Маляренко Александр
Максим, про танки - это была шутка, навеянная анекдотом от С.Шкариненко ниже.
[21.05.2014 20:32:12] Максим Гладков
Про танки вроде ничего:) Просто он написал послание весьма философского характера, содержание которого можно обсуждать часами. И при этом сослался на текст некоего советского военного советника без указания самого текста. По-хорошему письмо надо бы перевести на русский для общего обсуждения, но я поросил его сначала прислать мне этот текст, чтобы было о чем говорить.
[21.05.2014 19:12:47] Маляренко Александр
С праздником, шановни переводчики!
Максим, а ты что там про танки с американцем говоришь?
[21.05.2014 13:42:23] О.Шашенков
С ПРАЗДНИКОМ ВАС,ВОЕННЫЕ ПЕРЕВОДЧИКИ!
[21.05.2014 10:43:40] Станислав Сидорин
С Днем военного переводчика, translators and interpreters!
Наилучшие пожелания коллегам в Анголе по СВАПО,АНК,ЗАНУ.
А также по Мозамбику,Эфиопии,Чаду,Марокко,Ливии и т.д.
В свое время Африки на всех нас хватало...
[21.05.2014 10:39:39] Шкариненко С.В.
С профессиональным праздником Днём военного переводчика!
И маленькая шутка:
"Война. Военный переводчик ведёт допрос военнопленного.
-Уот из ёр нэйм?
-My name is John Smith.
...ХРЯСЬ пленному по роже...
-Уот из ёр нэйм?
-[удивленно] My name is John Smith!
...ХРЯСЬ! пленному по роже...
-Уот из ёр нэйм?!
-[чуть не плача]: My name is John Smith!!!
...ХРЯСЬ!!! пленному по роже...
-Я тя, ссука, спрашиваю, сколько у тебя танков?!..."
[21.05.2014 04:51:00] Владимир Савченко
С Днем военного переводчика Вас,tradutores
[21.05.2014 01:22:58] Max Gladkov
First of all, it would be great to know, which text by a former Russian advisor to FAPLA you are referring to. Please, send this text or link to me using my personal email - firstname.lastname@example.org.
The questions you are giving rise to are quite philosophical and at the same time natural, and may take hours to discuss. My suggestion is as follows: give us a break, and we will translate your message into Russian. Meanwhile, I will post it on our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Союз-ветеранов-Анголы-Russian-Angola-Veterans-Union/155529617887832?ref=hl
And together we will engage in a discussion that I expect to be extremely interesting.
And thank you very much for your contribution! It is late at night now, but I promise to get back to it tomorrow and afterwards.
[20.05.2014 17:38:55] DES BURMAN
ENEMY POINT OF VIEW
I refer to the attached document / narrative which is possibly part of a more complete narrative that was mailed to me and published some time ago. I want to present some points of view totally without prejudice and from a вЂњGRUNTвЂќ soldier in the trenches point of view of which almost 90% of us were!
From an objective and neutral pint of view I found this story very interesting. I fortunately had the time to read the whole story. Not sure if all recipients managed to read it. It may also be part of a bigger story.
In any case simply from the informative point of view I mailed this story to various people including some very senior Generals that commanded our army during our time in the war. One of these was General Jannie Geldenhuis
Unfortunately the General blew a fuse and actually hung up the phone on me after I called him to confirm that he actually read the story, seems that he had!.
Well, with respect, he went onto the total defensive and shot to hell the Russian who wrote the story. The phone line burned and he threw the phone down on me. Generals do not do that to their very productive subordinates. None of the other Generals did! The objective of the call was to discuss his opinion, objectively of this Russians experiences in Angola! So, this the issue that I want to discuss without any prejudice what so ever to anyone, but from a combatants / grunts / cannon fodder point of view
The other Generals that I mailed this story to simply took it in their stride and read the story, for what it is worth, over a whiskey and did not launch a frontal attack on the Russian and me in respect of his story and our Generals handling of the war. I wonder why some of them are sooooo sensitive of the military failures albeit the fact that the problem, initially and finally was a political problem! But then maybe they did not concentrate their forces as they should have done вЂ“ politically and according to their military doctrine! A fine example of this blunder can be read in the Rolling Thunder вЂ“ Vietnam - where the General Westmoreland lost the war in Vietnam and then Mac Arthur in Korea!
I actually felt that the General had gone into serious denial and total combat mode as to the validity of this document and the вЂњfactsвЂќ as stated by this Russian advisor to FAPLA in the war. That was actually not my mission. I am always very interested in hearing the story as seen and reported from the other side irrespective of the views and their version of the story. Very few of those exist and a fine example of that is the point of view of this Russian and also the VC and the NVA during the Vietnam war. That war was in many ways similar to ours.
So my question is why fly of the handle regarding this 172 page narrative unless there is a deeper meaning or better, something that I donвЂ™t know!.
Why is it that some people go onto the ultimate defensive and denial mode when they should consider the enemyвЂ™s point of view from whatever angle, if not, simply for the background and from their side
The fact is that this Russian had considerable respect for the SADF and especially their вЂњwhiteвЂќ: commanders and soldiers and especially for вЂњthe Buffalo soldiersвЂќ ! He admits that the SADF really pounded them during the Cuito operations and later in SW Angola.
This Russian, also from my point of view was quite objective and actually gave a soldierвЂ™s story as he experienced it from his side. One has to read these stories with objectivity and from where they come from. Naturally there will be a certain amount of bullshit and propaganda as seen with all war stories but between that there is also a certain amount of truth. The fact is that this soldier actually respected his enemy!!. The SADF, so give him some credit!!
Now this brings me to the main issue.
1. I assume many of us in the trenches did not actually HATE the enemy, in this case I refer to SWAPO and to a degree FAPLA. I certainly did not hate them. I actually had a certain respect for SWAPO and as an opponent I respected them. What they did in their operations in SWA was far more than any force in Angola did in relation to the Cubans and FAPLA with the SWAPO infiltration into SWA / Namibia where the chances of returning to Angola were almost zero. My mission was to kill them (whoever) and they to kill me and the better ones wins вЂ“ no hard feelings. To really highlight this, I ended up doing almost three years in the Angolan Armed Forces, Special Forces Division as an advisor ( after the SADF ) and did a hell of a lot for the Angolan Army in that time and after that. That whole saga only ended two years ago, although I still maintain contact with various Angolan Generals and the Army Chief of Staff at this moment. Actually it was the Angolan Army that enabled me to retire almost three years ago! That actually says it all !!
2. What I did in the SADF I did NOT do for any General or for the cause or politics or the NP or whatever, in any case I hate politicians and will always hate them as will any soldier!!!!! I reckon that in most wars, this is the case regarding the soldiers in the trenches. When politics fail they call the army and we have to fix their shit, it never changes.
3. These Generals that we took orders from and were told what to do when and where most likely never had a shot fired at the in anger in their total military career. This was the state of affairs in Vietnam. The grunts did the killing and the Generals simply вЂњdirectedвЂќ. Then as with some of our Generals, as we know, also stuffed up totally as did Westmoreland in Vietnam, and some more!
4. When the shit hit the fan in Angola re the Cuban 50th Armoured Division with their Tactical Units, with serious air support and the advance towards the border and to the South West Angolan province вЂ“ Cunene Province and whilst we were blocked at Cuito Cuanavale, we were to an extent check mated, regarding force deployments. With this huge enemy armoured assault in the East and our SADF huge force deployment in the Cuito area, SE Angola, and the losses we suffered in the Cunene, I definitely remember a very worried General telling me to plan a phased retreat to Grootfontein as вЂњwe donвЂ™t retreat and did not learn that on staff courseвЂќ. That was the end of the war and the beginning of the Angola / SWA / Namibia DMZ and domino effect for Southern Africa re black rule.
5. Sure, these Generals were worried about the losses as is the Israeli / USA army and the RSA public response to this especially after the Calueque killing of all the guys on a Buffel at the Calueque hydro elec project. All this and the above (2) was the work of General Arnaldo Tomas Ochoa Sanchez "El Moro", one of the best Generals the Cubans ever had and then they executed him, on trumped up charges. The bottom line is how do you redeploy all those SADF including most of our Mirages (Rundu) in the E to the W of Angola of even try to confront that Cuban division? Please tell me that the Generals did not know of the 50th Div landing in Angola and their movement down to the SWA border?
6. What pisses me of is that the Generals never took the Politicians and the NP to task and provided the leadership there. In this case they, the warfare doctrine вЂњmastersвЂќ never followed the rules of combat and more the PRINCIPALS OF WAR!!! This eventually led to the loss of the war in Angola, SAW and then the RSA. The army is always at the beck and call of the politicians and they are pawns of the De Klerks and the Bothas and in the end the end itвЂ™s the grunts that suffer! Then in return they get are given jack shit for all the killing and death they had to suffer for these REMFS,s. If you donвЂ™t know what that means ask a grunt! Rear Echelon Mother fuвЂ¦вЂ¦вЂ¦S
7. 30 years down the line I am actually pissed off with most of them for what they did.
8. What is very important to me is the fact that I have no вЂњbeefвЂќ or any other problem with the enemy whether it be SWAPO or FAPLA whatsoever ever. They were the enemy and I had the job of killing them and them to kill me. Fact is my loyalty was not to the Generals or the army or the NP who whoever but to my soldiers under my command and to get my kill rate up to the maximum and all my soldiers out in one piece. In actual fact I wrote letters to SWAPO in my area asking them to meet me to talk about operations and how I was killing them, albeit to kill more of them at the meeting. I have the full story and the photos.
9. Fact is that I sincerely respected SWAPO for what they did, many, many, times more than FAPLA. The Russian mentions this also, he had no time for the FAPLAS but respected the SADF. I would hate to have done what SWAPO did in that war under the circumstances and against the odds that we the SADF represented excl. Koevet and the rest. They had 2000% more guts than FAPLA.
10. Further I also have sincere respect for the Cubans and also, when I visited Havana in the late 90,s the respect that I got from the Cuban military people that I met there was exceptional and I want to go back there. The Cuban Ambassador вЂ“ ex military and ex Angola had no problem with me and actually invited me for supper to talk about the operations at Cuito. They had exceptional respect for the SADF and our soldiers. There was no animosity what so ever and we had great respect for each other. Wonder how many of our Generals actually went to Cuba after the war and met these military veterans / adversaries and how many of them are still pissed off with them?
11. I, in actual fact would have no problem inviting any of the SWAPO, Russian, Cuban or Angolans who I tried to kill in earnest into my home at any stage! I respect them and they will respect me, we have no axe to grind. We were adversaries and following a political situation that used us as the pawns to deal with their political shit!
12. Then also how many of these Generals actually have any form of Post-Traumatic Stress what so ever from that war? Then, how many of these Generals have tried to help these soldiers with PTS and other social malfunction issues and deformities from what they caused? Let us not ever drop the issue of PTS, as that is still around and will remain with some of us until we die. This 30 years down the line. Again the Vietnam war and PTS is a fine example. We still have this issue today with the ex SADF, Koeveot and the rest and the SAPS etc. et al. For the record why is it that we, who may have that, are not given FREE medical help with this!!!!! This is a serious issue and none of these Generals have tried to help with that, not to mention the situation of the 32BN troops at Pomfret where they the Generals and the politicians simply discarded the best fighting unit in the history of the SADF and ran for their pensions and big houses at Mossel Bay, Melkbosstrand and Stilbay etc. et al!
So what is the point:
I never hated the enemy and they probably never hated me. I did not kill their wives and children (as far as I know) and they did not do that to my family so whatвЂ™s the problem. Give the Russian a chance, he is simply telling his story as he saw it. Going into denial is not the solution, one should be objective.
We had a job and they had a job. To hell with the Generals and the cause and all that bullshit, it was me, my soldiers and the unit and stuff the rest. Fact is that in 1994 I voted for the IFPвЂ¦вЂ¦.. wasted that vote!
So Generals, what I want to tell you is that you need to bury the hatchet, get out of the denial state and mode, accept the facts that we eventually lost, due, maybe not to your failures but if the shoe fits - ware it and hack it and take the heat. Take a lesson from Mao Zedong and the Israelis irrespective of the status quo. Things now may have been different and we would never have been in the shit that we are in at this very moment in this country.
Further to the above why is that all these pillars, bastions and corner stones of the military simply disappeared and wasted away after 1994 and ran for their pensions except for the likes of Constant Viljoen, General Opperman and Nel who are still fighting the fight for the interests of us grunts who did the killing and suffered all the shit in the trenches. Very few of our Generals actually led from the front and the two of the best were Ferreira and Breytenbach, they took the heat with us. General Ferreira, in Modula, Hooper and Packer was with us all in the front line and at the Tac HQ not to mention many other operations !!
What kills me is that these back seat Generals dictated to us a policy and form of warfare that they built and formulated as we ploughed on. In this respect, all the case studies that we were forced to study and we were involved with such as Clausewitz, Sun Tzu and the rest. This, from most of them who were never in combat or at the head of a battle, where they faced a bullet in the head. That, except for the few that I have mentioned and especially in the final Modular, Hooper and Packer operations.
So, Generals, as with the books that you threw at us re вЂњKNOW YOU ENEMYвЂќ, I suggest that some people seriously need to have some respect for our old enemies, bury the sword and the hatchet and accept them for what itвЂ™s worth and if you let the grunts down when we were on the wire and in the trenches, accept it!!!
[20.05.2014 17:29:20] Abie Slabber
Hi there all you ex-commies :-) I was with 32BN (Baffalo) in 1983/84 in operation Askari and then afterwards the JMC. I even had a lift in one of your Hinds to employ with FAPLA once. I am in Germany now, and if any one ia available for a beer (or a Vodka), let me know.
[19.05.2014 10:01:35] Татьяна А.Давыдова
Спасибо Вам,уважаемый Андрей Александрович Токарев,за Ваш труд на благо нашей радости,за энтузиазм, Великую память Победы,радость праздника,радость встречи,радость общения,радость весны и счастье жизни!Спасибо за органично организованные ежегодные праздники-встречи,за торжество наших патриотических чувств, торжество счастья Свободы!
[17.05.2014 22:15:43] Андрей Токарев
Дорогие друзья! Искренне благодарю всех, кто 9 мая пришёл и принял участие в празднике «Наш День Победы» в Центральном парке культуры. Наша встреча – ещё одна возможность собраться вместе «без протокола», вспомнить о службе в Анголе, о друзьях-товарищах, помянуть тех, кого нет с нами. Такие встречи важны и тем, кто приходит к нам на этот праздник: многим хочется сказать слова признательности ветеранам Великой Отечественной и локальных войн за мирное небо над нами. И это вновь мы увидели в этом году на встрече 9 мая.
Наша новая, шестая встреча состоится через год, 9 мая 2015 года, в юбилейный, 70-й год Победы. Ждём вас.
[17.05.2014 19:09:54] Шкариненко С.В.
Советское присутствие в Эфиопии в 1970-х(фотки)http://humus.livejournal.com/3831475.html
[16.05.2014 22:16:21] Шкариненко С.В.
http://argumenti.ru/history/n437/338598 -статья про нашу переводческую "бурсу"(спасибо Евгению Логинову за ссылку)
[11.05.2014 02:30:03] Максим Гладков
Друзья, фоторепортаж о нашем праздновании Дня Победы в Парке Горького здесь: https://www.facebook.com/155529617887832/photos/a.588060561301400.1073741830.155529617887832/588063297967793/?type=1&theater
[09.05.2014 23:32:04] Валерио
С Днём Победы, дорогие ветераны, продолжатели дела своих отцов! Мир и Счастье Вашему Дому, Вашим родным и близким.
[09.05.2014 20:10:42] Максим Гладков
С Великим Праздником Победы, дорогие Ветераны! Андрею Токареву отдельное спасибо за замечательный праздник у Ажурной беседки!
[09.05.2014 18:21:29] Николай Ковтун
Ветеранов Анголы приветствую и поздравляю с Днем победы! Здоровья и благополучия.
[09.05.2014 10:33:44] Свиридов Сергей Дмит
ПОЗДРАВЛЯЮ СОВЕТ ВЕТЕРАНОВ АНГОЛЫ с ВЕЛИКИМ ПРАЗДНИКОМ -ДНЕМ ПОБЕДЫ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Желаю МИРНОГО НЕБА НАД ГОЛОВОЙ !!!!!!!!!
[09.05.2014 05:56:42] Татьяна А.Давыдова
Чтобы мы родились и радовались жизни на нашей планете, около девяти миллионов воинов нашей страны погибли в годы Великой Отечественной войны.Вечная память им!Слава нашим героям! С праздником Великой Победы нашего народа !Наши отцы и деды защитили нашу Землю от фашизма, от порабощения,от уничтожения нашей нации,нашей государства,нашей культуры. Слава,слава,слава! С праздником,дорогие соратники!
[08.05.2014 23:10:18] Игорь Васильев
Поздравляю всех Ветеранов Анголы с Днем победы!
Желаю ВСЕМ крепкого здоровья, долгих лет, счастья и мира Вашим семьям!
[08.05.2014 22:45:54] Орест Коргут
Уважаемые ветераны Анголы , поздравляю Вас с Днем Победы , Доброго Вам здоровья , светлых праздничных дней ,
[08.05.2014 19:20:03] Владимир Волков
Всех ветеранов Анголы с днем Победы! Мы в свое время не посрамили их памяти и с честью выполнили свой долг в Анголе. Пусть друзья и соратники в Украине быстрей разберутся в своих политических дрязгах, неужели нам светит смотреть друг на друга в перекрестие прицела?
Поверьте, никто в России этого не хочет! С Великим праздником - Днем Победы!
[08.05.2014 18:44:12] Борис Харитонов
Сердечные поздравления всем ветеранам - с днём Победы!
Пожелания крепкого здоровья , успехов , семейного благополучия!
Низкий поклон и вечная память тем , кто отстоял нашу Родину.
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