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[30.07.2009 09:51:12] Gary Smith
Hi Guys it is great to be able to read of accounts from our former adversaries in Angola. Thank you for setting up the site and for translation of the memoirs into English. I am sure a lot of ex-SADF , SAAF members will visit the site. Gary

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[29.07.2009 05:33:23] Max Gladkov
Dear Johan,

Your request is also on our Russian Guestbook already. But, please, be patient. If necessary, I will post all the requests again in September to make sure that they are paid proper attention to.

With best wishes,

MG

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[29.07.2009 04:59:10] Max Gladkov
Dear Tinus,

I have posted your message with questions on our Russian page for Russian veterans of Angola to be able to comment on them. But as I said before in summer many Russians go on vacation and the activity of our visitors goes down making the site kind of “dormant”. Taking this into account, please do not feel aggrieved, if getting answers to your questions takes some time. Anyway I am going to repeat most interesting and important postings and questions on our Russian page in September.

Kind regards,

MG

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[27.07.2009 21:16:29] Tinus
Hi Max

I did manage to have an "automatic" translation of Sergei's written piece. I agree with what you are saying especially after reading what Sergei had written. But I've found some two pieces of interest (the aircraft being shot down and how the marines protected the navy ships) that I can link. My aim is to also give the experience of the other side whenever the South African Special Forces did something - of interest to me was how the Russians reacted after the attack in Namibe harbour (June 1986) when a Russian cargo ship was sunk and two Cuban ships were disabled by our attack divers. I have a few questions for example - Where there any Rusian involvement at the Cuito bridge when our divers tried to sabotage it late 87 ? Not to say there was direct confrontation but how was our Special Force’s actions perceived by the Russians, were any orders given to be on guard or avoid certain places etc

My e-mail address is tinus_de_klerk@yahoo.com

Regards
Tinus

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[13.07.2009 14:28:16] Johan Schoeman
Max, there is no rush... History is patient. As you can probably imagine, I have hundreds of questions, but I will restrain my self and post them one at a time...LOL

In the meantime... enjoy Florida!

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[09.07.2009 23:43:38] Max Gladkov
Dear Johan,

Sorry for this delay with a response. Last week my family and I came to Florida, USA, to stay here until late August, and I have just set up proper Internet connectivity.

I will for sure translate your message into Russian and post it on our Russian page shortly. The only problem that I anticipate is that because of summertime many permanent visitors of our site may be away on vacations with no access to the web. But let us try anyway. I am sure, it will work out somehow.

And I still need to get back to your earlier message concerning engineering equipment.

Kind regards,

MG

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[06.07.2009 20:18:42] Johan Schoeman
Max, It looks like the exhibition was a great success!! I hope you had a lot of interest... and hope the pressures of the exhibition is now a thing of the past, and that you can get 'back to business'...

I've had the following request from some wargamers on the www.warinangola.com aite:

"Looking at some first-hand reports by Russian military advisors, I think the Staff isued extremely precise and directive orders, giving no space for improvisation and initiative.

But nevertheless, I would looking forward to see a couple of those papers, just to see “how” they look like and what’s the sort of words and style of writing they use."

To this effect, is it possible to provide us with some samples of how the FAPLA brigade and battalion level staff officers would have issued their orders to the lower formations?

I am incorporating a SADF-style orders format to the SADF scenarios of our refights in order to recreate some realism for the participants. It would be great to do the same for the FAPLA commanders...

Any feedback in this regard would be appreciated.

Johan Schoeman
www.warinangola.com

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[26.06.2009 19:16:08] Max Gladkov
I have forgotten to mention that Russia Today broadcasts in English and Arabic

MG

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[26.06.2009 19:15:03] Max Gladkov
Dear all,

Today during the whole day, while Russian President Medvedev was negotiating with Jose Eduardo dos Santos in Luanda, Russia Today has been showing in its news broadcast a short interview with Russian veterans of Angola. Now it is available on the Web. First, there will be a short story on diamonds, and then our part...

Use the following link to view it: **Ссылка »***

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[14.06.2009 04:11:38] Shkarinenko Serguei
Angola: SAAF Bushwacks Six Helicopters
**Ссылка »***

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[11.06.2009 02:04:11] Johan Schoeman
I have placed Barry Fowler's feedback about the exhibition on my site as well.

Its awesome to see former adversaries embrace friendship in this manner...

Barry, you are welcome to register on the Warinangola.com site as well. I would like to hear from you and your experiences.

Regards

Johan Schoeman
www.warinangola.com

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[11.06.2009 00:20:45] Shkarinenko Serguei
To Barry Fowler.Thanks,Barry for coming here and writing your impressions/I hope you,ll tell your Army Talk members about your visit and impressions too.Best Regards from Cahama1

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[10.06.2009 11:44:06] Barry Fowler
My Dear Friends,

Thank you so very much for inviting me as a former SADF officer who was involved in Operation Hooper (1988, Cuito Cuanavale) to attend the opening of your exhibition; `We Couldn\'t Have Been There\' on 5/6/09.

I had the priviledge of meeting several members of your organisation before the main event.

Your photo collection as displayed was excellent, and the event must have been a success for all those who attended.

I was struck by how similar our experiences were, although at the time we were opponents, but if in the photos, the uniforms and equipment were to be changed, it would be difficult to tell the sides apart! And similar with the stories that we traded. I wish that I had had much more time, as there were so many interesting people to talk to, and I was struck by wishing that I could have had a drink with George, the older gentleman from the military academy, and just so many others with whom I was only able to have a brief word.

I suppose I wasn\'t surprised at all at the friendship and hospitality that you gave me, and the great sense of comradeship that we enjoyed together.

I am glad that it was agreed that I could wear my SADF uniform so that I could be identified as what I was, rather than just another man in a suit, and I was not aware of any negative reaction to this or me from anyone. Sadly though, I\'m not soldier-shaped anymore, with now being fat and bald, but most of us have had some such changes over the last 21 years! (And Valdim explained to some that I was a Prisoner of War! :-)

The diplomats, the Cuban Military Attache\'s and the Angolan Air Force Attache were very gracious in shaking hands with me, and agreeing that `it was nothing personal\' and the world has changes such that we can now be friends.

Thanks very much to Sergie for his excellent gift, and to all the others who so kindly gave me gifts and their time.

And a special personal thanks to Maxim for all the hard work that he went to to arrange my visa, and for the fantastic hospitality that he and his family provided me with. I certainly hope and expect to come along to the next event that the Angolan Veterans Union holds.

As with the name of the exhibition, I would never have have believed back in 1988 when I was in Angola, that in the future I would be in Moscow, shaking hands in friendship with our former opponents (including former members of the KGB!) and finding that we had more in common as people than the ideology that had previously made us opponents. \"I could not have been there!\"

With many thanks, best wishes, and see you again,
Yours sincerely
Barry Fowler
Former SADF Captain

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[22.05.2009 18:49:10] Johan Schoeman
Thanx Max... I made the change!

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[22.05.2009 18:31:36] Max Gladkov
Dear Johan-

You did a great job! Thank you very much indeed!

There is just one error in the address that must be due to automated translation. The exact address is: Central Museum of the New History of Russia, 21, Tverskaya Street, Moscow

Thank you again. Once the exhibition is over, I will get back to the translation of our dialog and include the engineering materiel you mentioned in it.

Sincerely yours,

MG

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[22.05.2009 17:52:21] Johan Schoeman
Dear Max,

I hope the preparations for the Photo Exhibition is going well. I have placed your poster of the event on my site's home page with a link to the details. If you have a moment, will you please check the details for accuracy? Especially the address details...

I will send out an announcement by email to all the registered users on the site as well as soon a I know you are happy with it.

Regards

Johan Schoeman
www.warinangola.com

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[22.05.2009 16:01:48] Max Gladkov
Hi Tinus. I am afraid I will have to disappoint you. The book “Russian Spetsnaz in Africa” by Sergei Kolomnin is not about Special Forces. It is about ordinary Soviet military professionals who served in Angola as military advisors, specialists and interpreters (like myself).

The point is that, unlike our involvement in Afghanistan, our involvement in Angola was kept secret by politicians in our country. People in the USSR and then Russia knew that there “was something”, but no details were available. That allowed some self-devised “spetsnaz fighters” – we call them “Angolan Rambo”, you call them “Grensvegter” – to tell tales about their fake acts of bravery in Angola.

In fact, there were no Soviet spetsnaz forces in Angola. There were spetsnaz officers who trained Angolan commandos and helped them to plan operations, but never participated in those operations personally – let alone any involvement in the Angolan events of regular Soviet spetsnaz units.

In his book Sergei Kolomnin debunks those guys and describes how in reality we lived and worked in Angola helping FAPLA to develop their combat skills. The title, although it may appear misleading, implies that the only Special Forces we had in Angola were ordinary military personnel of all ranks and professions. And in this context the book is definitely worth reading. Unfortunately it is not translated into English. Maybe, someday. But, if you manage to have it automatically translated, and stay with some questions, do not hesitate to ask them at any time.

Kind regards,

MG

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[22.05.2009 14:39:40] Tinus
I've downloaded РУССКИЙ СПЕЦНАЗ В АФРИКЕ (Russian Spetsnaz in Africa) written by Sergei KOLOMNIN (Сергей КОЛОМНИН)and would like to know where I can have it translated (the English website translation only translated the first two pages). I'm busy with a book about the South African Special Forces (Recces) and might find something usefull in the document. My e-mail address is tinus_de_klerk@yahoo.com

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[21.05.2009 22:14:06] petrus botha
To Igor,thanks I will mail you the book as soon as possible. My e-mail address is bothapf@ananzi.co.za. As I told Max, at this point in time I am a little busy, but I would glady document my story for you to translate/ use in future. If you ever have the means to return to Africa, you are welcome to visit/stay with me. Again thank you for the warm words/comradeship,we shall talk again soon.

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[21.05.2009 19:11:34] igor ignatovich
to Petrus Botha.Hi again! Thanks for your reply!200% agree with you on politics and politicians.I really did envied at RSA, the road of development you chose, as compared to those of Zimbabwe, Botswana etc. Your indignation, rift and misunderstandings are just as comprehensible and familiar to all Russians, who\'d suffered a lot! As many others had! You believe we can\'t change it. But we MUST NOT give up! Or soldiers we are not? Frankly speaking, we had no such \"Trials\" or whatever \"Commissions\". There was a BIG \"ONLY\" - nobody knew, cared of us being in the Bush. There simply had not been such a war, no casulties - nothing! By the way, in mid-December, 1987 I came to Lubango, stayed there for a while, and left Angola for good, October, 1988. Yours, Igor. My e-mail ivigor007@yandex.ru Mail address : 143000 Moskovskaya oblast, Odintsovo, ul. Novosyolovoy, 14-28, Ignatovich I.V.

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[21.05.2009 15:02:28] petrus botha
Max, please do! Sorry I got my date wrong Adriaan Vlok was to address us on 15 December 1987, 16 December is the day I arrived back home. At this stage I am completing a doctoral dissertation that consumes a lot of time, but once it is done, I would gladly document my recollections from being conscripted at school at the age of 16 up to my discharge after Angola. This too you may translate if it pleases you. Any Russian veterans coming to South Africa always welcome at my home. Kind regards P.F.

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[21.05.2009 10:51:09] Max Gladkov
Hi Petrus,

Thank you for your message - it is just another proof that the idea of setting up an English Guestbook is working out. And you are writing very important things. And I fully subscribe to them, because they are universal. That is exactly why I am so eager to translate "An Unpopular War" into Russian. By the way, do you mind if I translate your message into Russian for the visitors of our Russian page to be able to read it?

Kind regards,

MG

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[21.05.2009 00:17:41] petrus botha
To Igor, thanks again. I saw Max referring in earlier correspondences to a book about the South African conscript soldier, called "An Unpopular War". Please give me your address and I will mail you a complementary volume. As for me, I remain undecided as to its popularity or not, coming from a family of citizen soldiers that served in several wars from the Boer War to the Second World War. As Marx once wrote "The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways, the point is to change it". Well it is beyond you and me to change it, but we are left with our experiences to have philosophies about. It is peculiar that I found more friendship and comradeship amongst former enemies than with my brothers in arms. Now and then I meet some of them in the street and there is no sense of comradeship that men with our experiences normally share. I seem to read in their faces that we are guilty of some mutual crime and that is all. You see after 1994 the county had its own miniature "Nuremberg Tribunals" called the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, where soldiers and security force members were blamed for the Apartheid regime's blackest crimes. Politicians got away with murder and got all sorts of amnisties. For me the classic example is the recent one of former Minister Adriaan Vlok washing the Reverend Frank Chikane's feet as a means to reconciliation. That very same fool was to come and address our soldiers of 4 South African Infantry Battalion on our return from Angola on 16 December 1987 before our discharge from the SANDF,but never till this day showed up. As a result our demobilisation and discharge were delayed for a whole morning. So in my book he first has to wash a whole battalion of smelly feet. But that is the way of politicians, they talk and promise too much and they never think twice about asking a man to die for them. Kind regrads, we will talk some more.

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[20.05.2009 18:39:52] igor
to Petrus Botha. Thanks for visiting our site! You, and your views are most welcome and appreciated! Sincerely,Igor

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[19.05.2009 20:05:16] petrus botha
hallo Igor, geat to hear from you. Yes sad indeed. We will talk again soon. Hope to hear from you again. Kind regards.

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