English Guestbook

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[06.12.2009 15:21:38] Max Gladkov
Hi All,

Please note that we have set up on our website a new page called “Outlook from the other side” – it is bilingual, and you will easily find it in the left-hand-side menu. The page will be used to post most interesting stories told by our former opponents. We are planning to translate them into Russian and publish both Russian and English versions. Particularly interesting we see an opportunity to publish descriptions of the same events by members of formerly opposing parties. In all cases of such publications reference to the source will be made.

The page is opened by the following preamble:

Dear Friends,

This page has been set up to post recollections of our former opponents. Any story, all the more so, the story of human relations has two sides at least. And for those relations to stand a better chance whatever clouds may have darkened them before, each of the sides must have the right and opportunity to speak out…

We kindly invite you to speak out. Post your stories on our English Guestbook or give us links to other sources, and most interesting stories will be translated and published on our site.

For more information, please contact me at maximgladkov@hotmail.com

MG

[04.12.2009 18:51:34] Koos van Dyke
Max, Johan

I don't mind polishing my translation at all. And I think it's a very good idea - to make a section on the site with stories from SADF vets.

Die uwe
Koos

[04.12.2009 16:52:13] Max Gladkov
Hi Johan, Koos-

Today I got a message from Richard Harris, a former SADF artillery officer. Being a native English speaker he’s proved to be very helpful in finding out the exact English equivalent of the word ‘Stelpunt’ – the English term is ‘Datum Point’, and it translates perfectly well into Russian. So, Sergei, if you do not mind, I will make some minor changes in your translation. I promise I will try not to spoil it.

Johan, I am considering very seriously setting up a dedicated tab for stories like yours – something like “Former Opponents’ Stories”. I have not discussed it with other Union’s members yet, but the idea is in the air. What do you think about it?

I got feedback from many ex-Soviet advisors, and quite a few of them truly believe that we should be in touch, should tell each other our stories, and should take any opportunity to share opinions – otherwise we will hardly be able to find the golden mean, and preserve our history. Visiting Angola together and with good intentions is one of such great opportunities.

To Richard Harris-

Richard, thank you very much for your contribution! If you find time to write your story, it is more than welcome.

Kind regards,

MG

[04.12.2009 16:15:05] Koos van Dyke
Dear Johan

Thank you very much. I registered on "War In Angola", thank you, and already posted my message there. I'd repeat it here - partially. I appreciate your explanations about translation. Your story about language policy in SADF is very interesting – I hope you don’t mind if I would translate it into Russian too, do you? Seems that additional question may arise, though. Far as I know 32nd Battalion (“Buffalo” Bn – Os Terrivis) was (well at least that was in early 80s) the only Portuguese-speaking unit in SADF – I even read that it was the official language of the unit. Of course, all the officers in Buffalo Bn were whites and till the early 80s at least half of them were Souties :-) (and I believe Afrikaans-speaking) – but NCOs and privates were blacks, and predominantly Portuguese-speaking. So, maybe do you know, how they cope with Afrikaans and Portuguese?
Once again thank you,
Die uwe,
Koos

[03.12.2009 22:25:07] Max Gladkov
Hi Koos, Johan-

Just another great story worth translating into Russian! How about that, Koos? Maybe, it will give a push to some former military interpreters, and we will hear some of those Free-For-All jokes in Russian! And then we will translate them back into English - Johan, I am sure those will be even funnier than the original versions... LOL. Unfortunately, the jokes that I heard on Radio Galo Negro were in very poor Portuguese and not funny at all...

MG

[03.12.2009 21:34:57] Johan Schoeman
Hi Koos,

Yes... I should have used \"Piet Pompies\" as a pseudonym for myself!....LOL

I chose to use my own name so that people can see I am serious and not ashamed of what I am trying to achieve here (or, for that matter, what I did). In your case, you\'re excused... as most people KNOW you by that name...;-)

I am glad you found my Olifant story intriguing (thank you by the way, for translating it into Russian so that others may benefit from it as well).

First things first though, I look forward to seeing YOUR Registration (even as Koos!) on the www.warinagloa.com site so that I can repost these messages on my site on your behalf. You dont have to worry as I wlll repost them regularly so that you wont have to duplicate anything. It is just important to keep the conversations going in the Forums as it encourages participation. (I do it on behalf of Max all the time.. he is such a busy man!)

Your Arikaans seems VERY good, very like another Sergei that I met here in Cape Town, who could almost understand EVERY word and even speak it relatively fluently.

I am actually not sure what the correct terminology for a STELPUNT is in English... I called it an Adjustment Point.... STEL -> Adjust, PUNT -> point, but it could just as easily be a setpoint (although that does sound a bit like tennis though - Set Point, Match Point). I am not sure if other countries use a similar method, or whether it is a uniquely South African develpment. The concept is relativley simplistic, so I really do think one will find this in other armies too.

As to the language policy, yes the official stance was 50/50 Afrikaans/English, but that only really happened durig training and the regimental bases in South Africa. Operationally the tendency was to throw caustion to the wind and apply Afrikaans almost as a rule.... even the \"Souties\" (English guys) would simply adapt to Afrikaans, especially in fire control procedures. There was, of course, another unofficial reason Afrikaans was used in especially radio messages, and that was for security purposes. Again, w we were aware that you guy did have an Afrikaans translating capacity while listening in on our radio traffic, the translation itself would also cause delays in the interpretation of intelligence.

Not only that, we would use idioms and sayings that only a South African would be able to understand and would mean exactly nothing in a direct translation. Obviously some of the \"Souties\" often had a problem with this too... Incorporating rugby and cricket, and even golf terminology into messages just served to confuse any uninformed listener, while being fully understood by the intended recipient. Of course, we also used a lot of code words, like \"Groente\" (Vegetables) whenever reporting firing from Fapla artillery batteries.

It was very clear to us that our every word was being translated for intelligence purposes, and it became quite obvious when you consider the following true little story...

While I was deployed as 35A on the Chambinga high ground (for 43 days, as I may have stated elsewhere!!), it became a bit of a routine that on Saturday evenings, the top brass apparently retired early to enjoy a dinner and drinks together (some of us even thought they were being flown out to Mavinga or Rundu for an evenings relaxation!). We would get the All Clear from the signaller at the Brigade HQ that all the Brass (Commanders) have gone, and then it would turn into a bit of a Free-For-All on the radio frequencies. The one battery would gather together and sing a song to the other battery on the Regiment Net, just to be jeered at by the other, or even joined in the songs. Then individuals would take over the radio and some of the dirties jokes imaginable would be told over the open ether. This was ALWAYS accompanied by a complete lull in the fighting and it was almost like the entire SE Angola was just waiting for Saturday evenings to hear the singing and jokes. It did WONDERS for the morale of the men as personal best wishes and/or insults were passed along by radio. BUT it was very clear that somewhere, in the FAPLA HQ\'s, some translator was retelling the jokes to the uninvited listeners, and all thoughts of fighting was gone for the moment.... (Maybe you could even confirm this from some of the Russian translators).

I did suspect at some stage, that even our own COs were, in fact, not gone, but listening to the Free-For-All themselves!

Alas, come Sunday mornings, all hell would break lose again as our MLRs and your BM-21 started their dueling and we were back in our jobs doing counter-bombardment and harassment file missions. Even the MiGs seemed to have been more active on Sunday mornings for some reason.... I counted no less that 11 MiGs in the air one hot Sunday morning! And then had to duck as our 35mm AA fire dropped unexploded (and also expolding) shells into our proximity... but thats another completely different story again....

I think the use of Afrikaasn was definitelky prevalent on all the Armed Forces of South Africa in my day, but is was probably more balanced in the Navy and Air Force than in the Army, simply because there seemed to be a lot more \"Souties\" in those...

It was simple.... if you said something in Afrikaans, everyone was supposed (and expected) to understand it... not so much the case in English.

Phonetically, also, it was much easier to understand the Afrikaans of a Soutie (even though we would often roll of laughter!), than trying to understand the gutteral English of a Plattelander (rural Afrikaner) - which, of course, was never as funny to the Soutie, in retrospect. We, as Afrikaners, have a good sense of humour, so we do have a tendensy to burst out laughing when a Soutie says something in Afrikaans, but I can assure you that it is absolutely good natured, even if it is bad manners or in bad taste...It is just funny sometimes!

So, never be offended when you say something in Afrikaans and we start laughing... we really do not mean anything by it and just genuinely sometimes find it hilarious...LOL

[03.12.2009 01:26:51] Koos van Dyke
Dear Johan

First of all, thank you for your story about Olifants – it’s great! I am the fellow who translated it into Russian, so let me tell you – I enjoyed how it’s been told in simple but colorful and impressive language!
My real name’s Sergei – but I’ve been using the nickname “Koos van Dyke” for years, longer than I care to remember (that’s a long story behind the nickname) – so I usually go by “Koos” on Russian guestbook, as a habit, actually (folks there know my real name too and don’t care much).
Would you mind if I ask you a question. (Ek verstaan dat Afrikaans 'n bietjie, maar nie veel). What is the exact meaning of the word STELPUNT? Of course there was the procedure explanation in your story, but I just wanted to know the meaning. I managed to translate it as “set point”/”setup point”. I would appreciate if you’d tell me whether it is correct.
Also I have a question regarding language policy in SADF/SAN. I know that the official policy was “50/50”. As I read sources, though, I also understand that in reality the situation was more Afrikaans-oriented – they use Taal in SADF much more than Engelse. Was the language policy same in SA Vloot and Lugmag? Did they use Afrikaans more than English in these armed services?
I appreciate your answers.
Baie dankie.

Die uwe,
Koos

[01.12.2009 22:28:46] Max Gladkov
Hi Johan,

Yes, this is exactly the story that I meant. And please feel free to give my email address to the operator.

Regards,

MG

[01.12.2009 21:48:19] Johan Schoeman
Max, you mean my story about my abortive attempt to destroy the Olifants? Of course I do not mind... its now history...LOL

By the way, can I send your direct email address to the tour operator so he can contact you directly about the Angola Battlefields Tour?

Johan

[01.12.2009 20:23:50] Max Gladkov
Johan, thank you very much for your response - I fully support it, and have already translated it and posted it on our Russian page. By the way, one of our active visitors has translated your story into Russian, and, if you don't mind, I will post it on our site shortly.

Kind regards,

MG

[01.12.2009 00:23:03] Johan Schoeman
Max, yes.... I just had a meeting with the tour operator today and we were discussing exactly this...In fact, they were sure that Col Breytenbach would even be interested in going again (in 2010) if there were some of his opposite numbers going as well. I think it would be truly amazing to be able to sit and listen to these (translated) discussions around the campfire! And then to have Brig-Genl Dick Lord and maybe HIS opponents in the Air Defence Brigade in discussions. This could become a major exercise and demonstration in reconciliation between former foes, something that South Africa has been able to proudly achieve over the last 20 odd years.

It is a pity that there still are those that bear grudges and question our motives for reconciliation, even after all these years. I would have hoped that time has healed the old wounds and hatred, and if not, that this would go far in achieving exactly that.

I would just like to state, for the benefit of those that doubt our motives, that I, for one, do not have any subvertive intentions, and merely strive to get viewpoints from all sides in order to present a balanced view of the conflict. I am sure I am not merely speaking for myself here either...

Even while I am saying so, I will always be proud to be able to say I served in the SADF and \'did my bit\', but I can also guarantee you that I am not, and never was, a Fascist at heart! My intentions are completely of a non-political nature, and while I can never say I am completely objective in my views, I do strive to achieve a balance. Why else would I have appoached the Russian Veterans (and the Cubans) for information and their views?

I would also to invite Peter Evans to contact me through my site. I am sure he would have some interesting facts to share which may add to the balanced view I am trying to achieve.

Regards

Johan Schoeman
www.warinangola.com

[29.11.2009 21:35:33] Max Gladkov
To Peter Evans-

Hi Peter,

Thank you for visiting our website. I have translated your message into Russian and posted it on our Russian Guestbook. We welcome all kinds of opinions and points of view as long as they are not racist or offending in nature, and personally I strongly believe that it is good time for all of us to sheath our swords. And if there is an opportunity for it, why not to take advantage of it! My comrades may be of different opinions however this does not prevent us from being fiends and brothers-in-arms.

Trying to be a little bit more constructive in our discussion, I am offering you some of our summertime correspondence regarding the 2009 tour. It starts from a letter that I received from my friend Barry Fowler:

“Dear Maxim,

I received the following forwarded to one of the SADF email discussion groups to which I subscribe. I don't doubt that its genuine. I think you will appreciate his sentiments, and the Military Interpreters attached to SWAPO might also be interested.

I'm forwarding it without permission, but I know how to contact Colonel Breytenbach, and could ask him (belatedly) for permission to sent it to you - he doesn't know me, but I would expect he would be happy for his sentiments to be shared.

With best wishes to you and my other Russian friends,

Barry”

The material in question was Col Jan Breytenbach’s account of his recent visit to Angola, the 2009 tour. I asked Barry to turn to Col Breytenbach for a permission to have it translated into Russian and posted on our site. Here is Col Breytenbach’s response:

“Hallo Barry,

I am sorry I am late with a reply----have been away from my computer for a while. But go right ahead and let them translate. The war is over and the swords have been sheathed. Soldiers never bear grudges----only politicians do and they are the ones who start wars in the first place.

Go Well,

Jan Breytenbach”

Here is the story that was eventually translated into Russian:

“Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:36 PM

Subject: Cassinga visit

Hallo Jump Master

I have just returned from a long trip through Angola during which I had the opportunity to touch base at Cassinga. I was escorted by a local who volunteered to show me the mass graves in the company of about twenty odd fellow travellers. The place as a whole is almost unrecognizable being totally overgrown. Needless to say Cassinga no longer functions as a town and even DZs and LZs are hard to identify.

The local, who seems to be an unofficial guide, informed us, at the two graves, that the people buried there were combatants. The smaller grave contained the bones of SWAPO leaders and the much bigger one the bones of the troops. He did not mention once the massacre of civilians although the concrete slabs covering both still have the faint imprints 'THE MASSACRE OF 4 MAY 1978' inscribed on them. I made a point of it to enquire whether the graves contained civilians or combatants and he assured me that they were SWAPO soldiers. He actually saw the the para drop from across the river on to Cassinga on that fateful day and was extremely chuffed to hear that I actually commanded the operation as one of the paratroopers. From then on I was his hero and he stuck to me like a leach! Of course I also gave him a good tip afterwards.

I told the story of Cassinga briefly to my fellow travellers and emphasised that the men under those slabs of cement fought most heroically and that they were killed mostly in the trenches when they forced us to fight bitterly for every inch right up to the end. I then asked one of them, a Zulu and an ANC supporter, to say a prayer which he did with some emotion while honouring the bravery of SWAPO fighters. I then recited the MOTH 'We will remember them' as a mark of respect to men who should have been remembered by their own SWAPO organisation for paying the highest price and doing so very bravely instead of hiding such valour under a false inscription.

I want to suggest that one way or another we, as paratroopers, should scrape some money together to put up our own little memorial at the bigger of the two graves with a suitable inscription, from us as former opponents, in which we express our admiration for the bravery displayed by those SWAPO soldiers who had fallen in battle, on that day, for an ideal they believed in.

For me it was quite an emotional experience to lead the small ceremony at the SWAPO grave side – and also for my fellow travellers, including my Zulu friend! It was almost as if I had come full circle, after many years, to pay my own personal homage to brave enemy fighters.

What do you think of my suggestion?

Jan Breytenbach”

Peter, please get me right. The fact that this material was translated and posted does not mean that we or I fully support it. But as I said, we want to be balanced in our opinions and open for discussion. We have to. Otherwise the war inside us will never end up in peace.

Kind regards,

Max Gladkov

[29.11.2009 10:43:27] Peter Evans
Dear Soviet comrades... efforts are underway to prevent future tours into Angola by former SADF elements who entered Angola in 2009, celebrating Racist Aggression against Frontline States in southern Africa and Angola in particular. The exclusion of all fighting forces were no accident and we regret the opportunity the Facists had of entering Angola before. Curently, the same Facist elements are using their Angolan experiences to mobilise former racist soldiers under one banner, resulting in programmes aimed at unsettling the new SA authority headed by President Zuma. We would request vigilance and care from your side in dealing with our former enemies as their agendas have not changed.. LET US REMEMBER THESE FACISTS IMPOSED GRAVE PAIN UPON OUR PEOPLE IN SOUTHERN AFRICA AND TODAY THEY STILL CELEBRATE THE PAIN THEY IMPOSED

[27.11.2009 19:10:56] Max Gladkov
Hi Johan,

That is a great opportunity indeed! Are you in touch with this agency? I’m asking because I have an idea. Just imagine how compelling the 2009 tour could have been, if within the same tour on each site one and the same story had been told by representatives of formerly opposing parties – e.g. Col. Breytenbach and Col. Velichko, who was advisor to the Commander of the 6 Mil District (Cuando-Cubango province) in 1987-1988! Please get me right: our veterans, former advisors are not young and most importantly not rich at all. It is unlikely that many of them will be able to afford such a tour on their own. If the tour agency that is organizing the event invited some of them – with their stories, of course – to make the tour even more interesting and attractive, it would be great, wouldn’t it? And I could provide interpretation services free of charge – just for an opportunity to visit all those places again What do you think about it?

Warmest regards,

MG

[27.11.2009 05:27:54] Johan Schoeman
Thanks Max!
Another opportunity has just popped up. A tour operator in South Africa is organising an ANGOLA BATTLEFIELDS TOUR from 16 May to 3 June 2010. This the same same agency that arranged the Angola Battlefields tour of 2009 which was accompanied by Col Jan Breytenbach! This next tour will be accompanied by Brig-Genl Dick Lord, who was commanding the SAAF Mirage F-1AZ squadron during the Cuito Caunavale battles. Most of the battlefields in Angola will be visited and will include Calueque, Xangongo, Ongiva, Evale, Cassinga, Cuvango, Menongue, Cuito Cuanavale, Chitembo, Huambo (Nova Lisboa), Bridge 14, Cela, Ebo, Sumbe, Lobito, Dombe Grande, Namibe, Lubango, Cahama, Ruacana.
For more information see **Ссылка »***
This is a great opportunity for veterans, and interested parties, from all over the world, to visit these battlefields first hand. All travel arrangements will be made by the expert tour operator who has been doing this for a number of years already!
I will be loading some EXCLUSIVE video footage of the last tour with Col Breytenbach soon, only for registered users of WarInAngola.com.
Regards
Johan Schoeman
www.warinangola.com

[25.11.2009 13:30:10] Max Gladkov
Hi Johan,

Sorry for not responding for so long - I've been travelling almost all the time of late.

Thank you for your support with the Wall of Names. And don't worry about things failing to go the way we want them to - that's life. The proposal to come up with a list of Soviet military who died in Angola is most welcome. But, as you can imagine, it will take some time, given the sensitivity of the task.

As far as Jim's question goes, I have already translated it into Russian and posted on our Russian page.

Alas, given the latest developments, it is unlikely that any of Russian veterans of Angola go to South Africa during the 2010 World Cup. Nevertheless, we were really pleased to get an invitation from South African Veterans. Thank you very much, guys! Please, be in touch.

Kind Regards,

MG

[24.11.2009 23:12:08] Johan Schoeman
Max... just to add to all your troubles, another question...lol

The followng question was raised by a guest, Jim: During the attack on Tumpo on 23 March 1988, Regiment President Steyn lost three Olifant tanks that were captured by the Soviets and Cubans. What happened to these tanks?

I did some research and found some information, however it would be interesting to hear from the Russian advisors whom may know better. See my discusion on the forum at **Ссылка »***

Thee are also two photos featuring Russian advisors on the captured Olifant. I have no idea about the source of these photos, but it would be nice to know who these advisors were and even to hear from them directly....

I also posted a story of my involvement in the abortive attempt to destoy the Olifant tanks, you might find this VERY interesting... see **Ссылка »***

Best Regards

Johan Schoeman
www.warinangola.com

[16.11.2009 11:56:02] Johan Schoeman
Hi Max.... I just had a discussion with Jabulani Phelogo who is a Research Coordinator of Heritage & Knowledge of Freedom Park. He is unable to provide a list of Soviet advisors listed on the Wall of Names. However, he requests that you submit a full list of names of the Russian casualties of the War in Angola, possibly with a personal history and description of the role and circumstances in which each died, for consideration for inclusion on the Wall of Names.

Seems to me our request has backfired on us....? LOL. I include his writing to me after our telephonic discussion, for your information:

"Johan
I am delighted we had that conversation, even though technology did not allow to say goodbye in a decent way. As a follow up, I would appreciate it if you can either link me up with the veterans association of the former Soviets or do get the information and forward it to me at Freedom Park. As I indicated I will then present the names list to our Names Verification Committee so that they can discuss it. As indicated during our conversation, I would appreciate it if I can get the list, some information on their role and contribution to the War in Angola, if possible, biographical information on each soldier will be of great value.
Thanks for contacting us about this information.
Jabulani Phelago
Research Co-ordinator"

I can send you his contact information if you would like to follow up directly and officially with this.

Regards

Johan Schoeman
www.warinangola.com

[15.11.2009 12:28:42] Max Gladkov
Dear Blahz-

Thank you very much for your message. It is very dear to us, especially today, on the eve of the Russian Angola Veterans' Day that is celebrated on the 16th of November. This day was chosen because November 16, 1975 the first group of Soviet military advisors, specialists and interpreters had disembarked in Luanda.

Could you please send us the email and other contact details of your organization along with some more information about it. Do you have a website? Please use my email address for technical communication : maximgladkov@hotmail.com And do not hesitate to countinue writing to our Guestbook.

Kind regards,

MG

[15.11.2009 10:59:33] Blahz
Dear comrades

I am a member of the Ex-Combatant Association, former MK cadres, who trained in Angola and during the pitch battles of Kuito Kuanavale, I was sent to the Soviet Union for further military training. As ANC cadres, we have opened a heritage route from Pretoria to Kuito Kuanavale in honour of all those who made their selfless contribution towards the ultimate collapse of Apartheid...we would like to establish a relationship with you comrades. We have good standing with comrade Irina Filatova and wish to have contact with your organisation as well as a you represent a people who gave their all to us as a people and a nation, yet no one seems to talk about this history in South Africa.

Gud greetings

Blahz

[14.11.2009 15:03:55] Max Gladkov
Hi Johan-

Thank you very much for your efforts - this information is very important for us. And sorry for long silence - recently I've been travelling all the time, and even crossed the Equator 4 times in the past 2 weeks. But now I am back to business, and shortly will send you another, more detailed story about AK74 from our Chairman Vadim Sagachko.

Kind regards

[13.11.2009 15:45:33] Johan Schoeman
Max, I finally got hold of the Research Coordinator of Heritaage & Knowledge of Freedom Park. Hopefully I will be able to get you a list of Russian names listed on the Wall of Names soon....

Johan

[21.10.2009 22:21:26] Johan Schoeman
Max, I'm sorry, but I did not make it to Col. Breytenbach's talk on Friday due to some car trouble. I will still, however, try to find out for you as I have a meeting with some ex-Recce's that served with him, shortly.

As to the translations, I am sure you are being kept quite busy with the collection of information from the veterans... So may I make a suggestion? I can try and use some of the veteran's responses by having it translated directly with Yahoo's Babelfish and maybe just run some of the unintelligble stuff past you before posting it (like the use of Russian codewords for certain equipment). That may help lighten you load...LOL

Regards
Johan Schoeman
www.warinangola.com

[16.10.2009 10:18:54] Max Gladkov
Hi Johan,

Thank you for the link. Instead of forwarding any messages, if there is a chance, wil you please ask Col. Breytenbach about the progress of his initiative to raise some money to erect a small monument in Cassinga?

And there will be more information about AK74s in Angola. I just need some time to translate another answer.

Kind regards,

MG

[16.10.2009 04:42:20] Johan Schoeman
Thankx, Max.. I have posted your feedback.

By the way, I am hoping to meet Colonel Jan Breytenbach (the founder of the Recces, 44 Parachute Bn - Parabats, and 32 Battalion) tonight, when he tells his story at the Breytenbach Centre in Wellington, here in the Western Cape... see **Ссылка »***

Any personal messages for him? LOL

Regards

Johan Schoeman
www.warinangola.com

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